This is some animal dung. What I hate more than white women crying about how they enslaved my people or how they are afraid of the black man walking down the street is some white man asking me to mammy 2.0 him.

I am always leery of terms like race reconciliation and race relations without having serious conversations about racial oppression, economic, and political rights of marginalized people of color. His letter is indicative of how profoundly ignorant some white people are about race. I am taking this amazing class on the social meaning of race and he asked the question in class, “How did slavery affect white people?” Of course, everyone was hard pressed to think of an answer. We could name a laundry list of effects on black people; however we could not name one effect on white people.

So, the professor said and the readings confirmed his answer that slavery made white people (in a collective sense) completely stupid about race especially poor white people in the South who were being exploited by the southern economic system. They didn’t have class privilege, but they were better than blacks. For a large majority of white people, racial issues is matter of fixing a “disgruntled relationship.” But it’s more than that . . . grrrrr . . . . it just make me so angry!

I know this is bit of rant and of course I am not saying that all white people are ignorant of race, but I will say that Rick Warren’s ingenious idea of sending letters to “de Negros” for help with a sermon he was asked to give shows how profoundly ignorant he is of race!!!!!!

And on another note, did he expect you black feminist theologian “I am not yo mammy” Renita to be a ghost writer . . . please he gots to be tripin!!!!!

Renita, it would seem from the letter that Rick Warren thought that you and your comrades would probably be flattered by this cheap solicitation. Laughable and Lazy are my observation in a nutshell! My questions are the following:

(1) What is his academic background?
(2) Who made the decision to offer him this assignment?
(3) When will you all collectively respond to this public relations request, because this surely is a “teaching moment”?

Wow, white privilege is such an artful coward! Thanks for sharing.

Dear Renita,
I salute you for the dialogical tone of your initial response to this ignorant, insulting faux-invitation. I’m outraged. (Cussin’ mad.) I’d like to affirm (and modify) Monique’s suggestion that you and the council of elders write an open letter to Mr. Warren, educating him. And I would hope that those of you who know the folk to know at Ebenezer would have some (more) conversations - I’m sure that has already begun.
You Fal and Mo are correct. He doesn’t get it. The expectation that black folk teach white folk about racism is another form of perpetual servitude. (I know I just contradicted myself.) From time to time I hear my white liberal/progressive friends and colleagues say that racism is a white problem. Let some of them - you all who lurk on and respond to this blog and others - also respond to Mr. Warren.
If I were responding to him I would say that a King trophy on your wall means nothing without Kingian transformation in your soul, of which there is not yet tangible evidence.

I know of two other somebodies who got the same letter. When I heard from one of them about it, I was incensed. Reading your post, I am howling with laughter that he could be so dumb! How could he not know that black preachers know one another and talk to each other?

But more than that, what makes him think you want to help him with HIS sermon? This makes me wanna cuss. Who in the world thinks it’s appropriate to reach out to strangers to ask them to help with their sermons? He has felt completely qualified to tell the rest us of what our purpose is, and we, I am ashamed to say, have seen him as qualified enough to turn our churches over to him for 40 days.

Ooh, I’m getting incensed again!

Thanks so much for putting Rick Warren on blast!

Sis. Rev. Weems,

Go ahead, write him back, and follow up with a phone call.

Tell him about white priviledge, racism, classism, sexism (especially from pulpits), etc. Also educate him on the interconnectedness of race, class, gender and homophobia.

Then give him a reading assignment,i.e., Tim Wise, the books, “Black Like Me” and “Soul Sister” and other readings on white male arrogant priviledge. Send hima copy of Dr. King’s “Letter from a Birmingham Jail”, which has you know, was also directed to some white ministers that criticized him. Lastly, direct him to the many interviews Mother Coretta Scott King gave on her support of lesbian and gay human rights, up to AND INCLUDING HER SUPPORT OF GAY MARRIAGE.

That’ll fix him!

weeeelllllll,
LOLOLO
after reading your post sister weems, i had to stop laughing before i could begin to put together my thoughts that i could type for the public eye.
Flattery is vanity- and to think that any of the black clergy would be
’so pleased’ (i hope not)to have been included, (to step in and pick some cotton), first off at such a late date-then to stand in agreement with his hate-filled heart on words that only he will get to edit in/out and speak to a group of mostly black people is like the brilliant idea of the pet rock years ago.
And people actually Bought those things!

And he believes, that we all believe, that if anybody did send him any thoughts that he would actually use them? Yeah Right. Look, I slaved/taught in public school for
18 years–I KNOW that TRICK! lolo

oh he gets it. he knows exactly what he is doing–and if the ideas are not his, then his people know what they are doing. He is up to something much larger than what we are seeing. it will be come out–wait on it.

The things is, they do not want US to get it nor do they know that We Already Get It!
We already know-they just want to hide undercover as long as possible, and play dumb.
Me thinks He thins too highly of himself!
What exactly could he possibly say to all those black people on MLK Jr day that they need to hear? WHAT? more hate-filled things plasterd over in ’sound good’? We already know all about MLK Jr’s life.
Also. i have issue with the church inviting him in the First Place. what came to me when i first read about this last month was–do they really need the money that bad they are going to ask him for some money? has their purpose changed since the last time i read about their mission? do that really want to Align themselves with him?
Then i thought about Jehosaphat and when he fell because of his alignments.
Lord Jesus!
sisterfriend, Keep standing in Your Tower VASHTI! AND KEEP SAYING NO! lololo
you do not stand alone.

~Always Seeking To Encourage!
WTm

Thanks Dr. Weems for being so eloquent and reading between the lines. I find it interesting that he waited until the last minute to “research and be led to contact the Black ministers” before such an IMPORTANT assignment.

If I may say one more thing: The black preacher in me is rising up, (ok dun roze up and gone pure tee off!) does he not understand that he is outing himself as being out of communion with the Holy Spirit? He’s made it clear that he doesn’t have a word from the Lord. If the Spirit isn’t speaking to or through him then he needs to sit down.
It also pains me that a holy assembly seems to be so hungry for the limelight that they will invite the most recently controversial so-called preacher to plagiarize whatever Uncle Thomas/Aint Thomasina sent him a second hand sermon for an evening news sound bite.

Just as a point of info, it is important to note that Ebenezer Baptist Church is not in charge of the Monday MLK service. The invitees come from the King Center, which is its own thing. Ebenezer is simply the venue.

LOL

I am ALWAYS amazed when white folks think they have the upper hand on black folks just because they are white. I am ALWAYS amazed at the fact that white folks don’t think black folks talk to one another, especially, those in the academic world. How could he think he could send such a letter in a vacuum. I guess with the invite from President-Elect Obama, the man is beginning to believe his own hype. I am just ALWAYS amazed by white folks. I am sitting here stunned.

Thanks, Rev. Weems, for posting this and letting us know that racism is indeed alive and well in this time of a black president.

Since he’s such a long time subscriber of the African American Pulpit, why didn’t he search through there and find ideas/texts that could help him? As someone said above…just plain lazy (and lame).

Maybe he felt like he needed to have some “friends” or namedropping associates to credentialize him. Ha! Maybe it isn’t obvious that racism, etc. has forced most prominent Black preachers (congresspeople, mayors, etc.) to know/know of each other and possibly befriend each other for the sake of a collective voice even when they might not even agree with each other. (like all of ya’ll say the same thing..) For those that had to go to Black seminaries because they couldn’t go to others or were the one or two at the majority seminary class that had to have one another’s back….We have to have ‘peers’ for education, encouragement, and protection. And more than likely will ‘tell it’ as the watchmen(women) that they are. A form letter (shaking my head)

In any event, the best lessons are learned from experience. Even I know you don’t wait till the last minute to write the THESIS (Ebenezer on MLK day = doctorate, not homework assignment). If/when you choose to respond, maybe suggest a semester at the Morehouse School of Religion, Howard Div, VA Union, or ITC. He might be transformed by Heidegger’s overlay of thrownness, forgetfulness of being, and making alien the familiar onto Schliermacher’s hermeneutical circle. But he won’t be in town long enough because Ebenezer is a pit stop on the way to inauguration. I hope he at least stays long enough for the benediction.

WOW. I cannot even believe that this letter is real and I cannot even believe that this is a FORM letter. How tacky. To build a relationship with anyone, you don’t send a form letter. And though I’m a young”er” preacher, I would think that asking someone what texts I should use, what should be my topic for a sermon is a bit strange. Sermonic developmment is a Divinely-directed process. Did this man go to seminary? I hope this letter isn’t real. I would hope that the man would have better sense in how to contact some of the most gifted theologians and preaching sisters and brothers of our time. This can’t be real.

OK. It is twenty minutes later and I’m still mad about this. I’m mad that this e-mail represents a lack of study and preparation and a honest, genuine approach to the particular occasion where he has been called to the sacred desk. This is just wrong, wrong, wrong! and was probably sent to get a whole bunch of people riled up and off task.

Wow, um, yeah. Okay, so I am a white chick and more or less patently unqualified to comment on this one (so please forgive any blatant naivete), but the email does seem patronizing to say the least. I’m not a big fan of Warren, but I’m willing to give him (or whoever wrote this) the benefit of the doubt that it was well intentioned, but really, really poorly thought out and even more poorly executed.

I know I don’t always “get it,” either but even from my point of view, this is pretty cringe-worthy.

The blog, Black Women, Blow the Trumpet has an interesting post, “The Annihilation of Black Men, that addresses Rick Warren.

Hi Renita,

I suspect Pastor Warren is passive aggressive. He just really wanted to rub in the face of progressive Black pastors how other Black folks love him and not them. His is nothing more that peculiar and dishonest way that some white people try to use other blacks or to use dissension in the ranks to gain credibility. This is the only time that they seem to understand that we are not all alike. Other than this, we still look and be alike. He’s right; it is one of the greatest opportunities of his career. It is a wide door opportunity to ride into legitimacy on the Backs off the Movement and Blacks. Why not write lesbian and gay or feminists preachers?

Oh well, I agree with Fallon so much ….! And, we Black people wallow in it…its a perfect example of gaining the world and losing our souls.

My rant….

Ruby Sales

Amen to everything above. Oh, and just for the record. He is not the first white pastor to the deliver the King message at Ebenezer. Father Michael Pfleger (St. Sabina- Chicago) was the first I can remember, and in my opinion, one of the best King Day speakers in recent memory. I wonder if Rick Warren wrote him too…

If that ain’t the height of arrogance I don’t know what is!!
What scares me the most is that some black minister will probably see that message and be flattered, start doing some research and send it to Warren.
And speaking of research, Warren should try doing some. He is not the first white minister to speak at Ebenezer for MLK Day. Father Michael Phleger was the keynote speaker in 2003.

He sent everyone the SAME letter - FOUL!

This is almost unbelievable. I can’t begin to articulate my disgust at the entire situation. If you and the other pastors give Warren some talking points, a lil’ education on the topic, help him with his political correctness, then maybe he’ll remember you all and put in a good word with his “friend” President Obama.

I have attended Warren’s church pre-Purpose and once post-Purpose (sometimes a sista just don’t feel like driving & his church was directly across the street) and I didn’t notice how his commitment to the ministry of reconcilation manifested itself on campus. I didn’t see it, feel it, or experience it.

Now that I have had a belly laugh!!!! — What bothers me more than the ignorance of white privilege here is that so many spiritually hungry African American’s who have fallen prey to the marketing skills of the Rick Warren types will be trusting his latest “purpose” whatsonever enough to buy it and ensure his recession proof status while they after reading it will be no less removed from the economic perils of the times walking around quoting another batch of coined phrases and ill understood scriptures to justify the lack of the “breakthroughs” these entertainers have promised not God, parading as spiritual wisdom or insight. I hate that Obama for the sake of inclusion and reaching out to religious conservatives is perhaps whetting the American appetite for more religious and spiritual pablum at a time when he is trying to reorient this country to substantative changes and thinking. I am so sick of these Billy Graham wanna be’s in their global arena size self-aggrandizement, clamoring to be the spiritual advisers to the White House and to God Herself. I so wanted Obama to choose the soberness of let’s say Rev. Dr.’s Otis Moss, Jr., Jim Forbes, Brad Braxton, Renita Weems, Teresa Fry Brown, Vashti McKenzie, Joan Parrott and the likes to set the tone for change, those who know something about sacrificing for such. Thank God there are others Joe Lowery, etc. — As it goes for the King service, well, when Eddie Long got the privilege I sighed a deep sigh and with this present family feud which needs our prayers, I sigh some more and pray some more for wisdom to prevail. I close however with much excitement and anticipation of the day we thought we would never see! My sighs turn to shouts, honor to the ancestors and I still pray, sing too!

I know I just wrote and I thank anybody reading my “two cents.” Let me reiterate why I chose to mention the King service which is the focus of this discussion with such brevity. Many of us in Atlanta, have been holding our breath in sadness for the struggles that cloud the social justice vision of the King Center’s decision making powers from time to time. I am not surprised by Rick Warren’s madness, I can see that he could be so silly. As I stated I am more concerned about the impact on our people due to the short-sightedness of the King Center and I guess politics will be politics.

I’m a keep this one short….
AMEN!
It’s interesting how he’s interested in the ministry of reconciliation when he lied during the Saddleback interviews about McCain’s whereabouts. He, and many other white male preachers I’ve noticed on TBN, TCT, INSP, etc. were not exhibiting their “come let us reason” skills during the campaign. Obama was an elitist, terrorist, anti-Christ, and everything else.
But the message of reconciliation seems to come up at a convenient time, huh? Or is it (like you already mentioned) that Warren just wants to have these emails in his “send box” as evidence that he reached out. I wouldn’t doubt it that some media received these emails via “blind copy”.
Next!….

Thanks everyone for responding. Your comments are proving helpful as I and other colleagues work diligently this week to compose an official group response to Warren.

I’d appreciate everyone’s help in forwarding this story to as many people as you can. We’re convinced that folks need to know about this. Especially the media.

How can you respond to someone who is asking for help even if it is a cut and paste email? Do I help by praying that God would open his eyes to see how he looks at African Americans in relationship to himself? Do I ask God to open his eyes that a book testifying about African American ministers is not the solution to his problems? Do I pray and ask God to help him realize that just because he made money from the purpose driven church, doesnot mean he will reap the same benefits from a purpose driven email? God please let the words of Dr Weems mouth and the meditations of her heart, be acceptable in YOur sight for YOu are our Strength and our REdeemer. in Jesus’ name, amen.

C’mon on man… let’s not go overboard. YES, his letter shows a little ignorance and no doubt a slight lack of preparation but to feel incensed? really…

Rick Warren asking for input and Rodney King’s attackers going free… Warren asking for input and Nazi’s burning Jews… Wow, these things invoke the same passion… seems to me Rick Warren isn’t the only person showing ignorance.

Not to take away from what Rick Warren may or may not be doing, but being a PK I know that when “Guest Ministers” come to revivals, they ask the preacher about the theme of the revival, text that they should use and all sorts of questions to get a feel for what needs to be said. It has nothing to do with whether you have a word from the Lord, its just wisdom. I didn’t read in the letter where he implied or stated that someone write his sermon for him.

He may want to name drop, he may want to do a lot of things, but help if you see why he needs it and don’t help if you don’t agree, its really that simple. But for anyone to call a brother in Christ like Rick Warren a stranger is sadly missing the meaning of the church body.

Fo real people, let’s be critical to the extent that things, intentions, and agendas need to be exposed but let’s not go too far. (Judge not lest you be judged)

Additionally, what rubs me the wrong way about this situation is that Rick Warren is the type of person who will spout on Monday that we live in a post racial America. He will say that Dr. King’s dream was achieved by the election of Barack Obama. He will say racism is a thing of the past. A truly misreading of the Movement for Freedom, yes I said movement for freedom and not simply the civil rights movement because even that term limits the meaning of the movement just as “race relations” or “race reconciliation” silences the phrase “racial oppression.”

Animal dung.

Yes, there must be a public shaming of his foolish asking prominent African American theologian/ministers to be ghost writers, but most importantly he must be seen as the pseudo moderate conservative who lacks an understanding of race. To be honest its not completely his fault that he lacks an understanding of race, many white people lack such understanding so perhaps there should be a wider critique of the new term of “race relations” . . . “post racial America.”

Also, from my sisterfriend who lives in Atlanta there is a protest scheduled at Ebenezer, i think?

@Tre

Okay, not wanting to start a fire:

“I hate that Obama for the sake of inclusion and reaching out to religious conservatives is perhaps whetting the American appetite for more religious and spiritual pablum at a time when he is trying to reorient this country to substantive changes and thinking.”

What makes you think that Barack Obama does not believe in Warren’s politics or message if nothing was made clear from this election beginning with his shunning of Jeremiah Wright to his lack luster race speech to silencing Michelle Obama’s comment about being proud of America.

Perhaps some of this is an artifact of politics, however, one could also say that some of this is how he sees race in America . . . bringing all together. As critical people of faith it is imperative not only to hold Warren accountable but also Barack Obama.

And on some level the selection of Joe Lowery should be questioned too because i have heard him on many occasion say very sexist things about women.

What I am trying to say that one’s choice of minister for the Inauguration says “something” about the president moving beyond this political strategy “have to reach across the aisle.” No you don’t have to reach across the aisle.

@hagar’s daughter,

“If you and the other pastors give Warren some talking points, a lil’ education on the topic, help him with his political correctness, then maybe he’ll remember you all and put in a good word with his “friend” President Obama.”

Its not a matter of political correctness that is at issue here. It is simply the politics of racial ignorance/dis-remembrance that mask itself in his “political incorrectness.” I don’t think Black ministers should “sheppard” Warren to the “light.”

By doing this we reinforce this race relation model that permeates American society where we simply need to let Warren know how disgruntled we are in our relationship with him when clearly based on the comments on this blog people are furious at the notion of teaching race to a white man who simply seeks to exploit their lived experiences as black people and scholarship.

Perhaps you are being funny with your comment about “maybe he’ll remember you all and put in a good word with his “friend” President Obama.”I hope this is the case.

i want to thank the persons that let us know it was the king center people that invited warren to speak. i understand the motives better.
and another point, killing off black men has been a ’sport’ for white people for many years. i’m more concerned about the black men killing off the black women and children with no help from whites.
again, be careful who you align yourself with.
thank you sister weems for encouraging us to speak out about the faults and underlined motives of mr warren. i actually feel sad for people like him and i pray for people like him-no matter what the skin color is.
1John 4:20-21
i have sent out this info to my email list. Spreading Light!
WTm

Well Dr. Weems,
After reading this post I downloaded it and gave it to my granddaughter for a discussion they are having for Dr. King’s birthday. When she received the information she called me and asked “grandma didn’t Obama know how dumb this man is? he’s suppose to be in charge. That said, i trust that you and the other ministers will let him know that before you became who you are you were the colored children Dr. King spoke of in his speech hoping that one day we would that we would be judged by the contents of our characther and not the color of our skin. Maybe he should have taken the time to read your blog and get to know you a bit, maybe he would read the thoughts of some the brillant women that come here. But i’m back to my granddaughter and her paper, the question again why did he pick him in the first place? Still trying to find an answer without sounding like a racist.

@Anonymous,
Please give yourself a moniker and resend. The blog doesn’t accept anonymous comments.

Good grief! This is a shame and a sham. He’s basically saying, “I don’t want to get to know you. I just wanna get through this moment and then, to heck with you and your people.” How he was even offered this opportunity is beyond me. Not because he’s white, but because he doesn’t have a clue about what King was saying and having something autographed by King on his wall? He needs to take it down now because he’s proven that it’s all for show in some feeble attempt to “proof” that he’s “down” or whatever he’s trying to do. Boo! Rick Warren! Just BOOOOO!!!!

@NiTRAM, I try to keep my judgment radar on alert, but you’re reaching. Form letters offer limited sincerity and personal effort. And for the record, anyone who equates same-sex partners to pedophiles “is sadly missing the meaning of the church body” and perhaps God might call them a stranger.

God Bless Ya

There’s a group that is in the process of contacting the Atlanta Black LGBT Coalition (the group organizing the protest against Warren’s presence at Ebenezer on Monday morning) about this. Many of us who will be at the protest on Monday morning will be there to stand in solidarity with members of the LGBT community as well as to spread the word about Warren’s blatant laziness and conniving attempt to use black ministers…in the name of Martin Luther King, Jr. Details about the march and the Rustin-Lorde Breakfast that will be held afterward can be found here: http://www.projectqatlanta.com/news_articles/view/Gay_protest_set_for_Rick_Warrens_ATL_stop/

Well. . .Massa been going to the “slave quarters” for years, tryin to compensate for his inadequacies . . .he’s merely continuing a longheld tradition. If he is truly a servant, he will graciously decline the invitation because “he” does not have a Word from the Lord. . .
Blessings to you Dr. Weems for not falling for the okey-doke!

Monique… First let me clarify. I agree with many points that Dr Weems made, but I more concerned about the posts that I have been reading. I think we are putting more on this than needs to be.

Now, (correction) for the record a sin is a sin is a sin, so anyone who equates same-sex partners, to pedophiles, to liars, to heterosexual pre-marital sex, is a good un-biased Chrsitian! For the record…
By the way, your statement [anyone who equates same-sex partners to pedophiles “is sadly missing the meaning of the church body” and perhaps God might call them a stranger] gives levels to sin. So, going by your statement, I’m being generous by downplaying homosexuality…considering of all the sins, homosexuality is near the top of the most talked about sins in the Bible.

You are right… Form letters are impersonal and all of that. I never disputed that, I’m just saying that a lot of these comments are going way past the response due this situation.

I think it is very narrow-minded to call Warren a stranger. If I am not mistaken, David had many wives and riches untold but had a man killed so that he could have his wife, but God still called David a man after His own heart. (by the way, the only person God said this about because he had a worshipper’s heart.) I mean Jesus built his church off Peter… really, Simon…”sift you like wheat Simaon” No really, Simon! Yet you are ready to crucify a man for calling a sin a sin. Something is wrong here…

Georgia’s Angels: The question should be, why not choose him? Not why would, but why not. (Don’t answer saying that someone else is qualified… answer saying why he is disqualified)

what i would suggest is that dr. weems and all the other recipients of the mass email invite him to have a sit down talk. there is a lot for him to learn. this seems to be a very intelligent, highly educated, well respected, and successful group.

a sit down conversation will benefit him and hopefully, help him overcome his racism and lack of respect for people of color.

@nitram e.martin
you see ‘all this’ through your learning, your experiences and your beliefs–and we each see all this through those same ways concerning each of our lives.
we hear you-your point has been made.

you see no need for us to see truth as we do-fine-we heard you.

just because you feel and think that how we are hit by this-that we may be ‘going to far’-or-’we are making too much out of nothing’, does not change the truth the way we know it.
it is just you telling us what you think based on your levels of understanding, experiences and wisdom.
you have your truths and we each have ours.
you are really doing what wareen & many others are doing–telling us how we should feel and how we should not feel.

many of us here have already claimed our freedom from being under years of that kind of passive manipulative controlling.

we heard you.

Bringing Glad Tidings and Publishing Peace!
WTm

@ NiTRAM [E. Martin],

To begin the tone of your comment is extremely paternalistic telling us that we are blowing this out of portion. It is one thing for you to say you think the letter means something else, but it is another thing to say we “thinking WOMEN and men of faith” are being overly critical and we should “not read so much into it.”

Secondly, you clearly lack an understanding of racism and race. Clearly your examples only see racism and xenophobia as “overt discriminatory acts of violence” (i.e. Nazis, Rodney King, etc.) The thing about power is that if shifts and racism is more systemic (i.e. Number of people of insured, number of black people living below the poverty line, etc.). Furthermore, Warren’s action represents the fallacy of race relation theories and is indicative of how America sees race which a banal outdated concept only to be cherished when King’s day is evident and perhaps during Black History month . . . to the effect that he can easily without effort ask black ministers to help write a speech about racial injustice.

All, he has to do if he really understood race and racism in America is look at the murder of Oscar Grant, look at white privilege that allows Maddox to be above the law, look at the silence of the Barack Obama on the atrocities in Gaza (a type of ethnic cleansing). These events move us beyond simply seeing King and the Civil Rights Movement as simply a historical and romanticize, and in Warren’s “role model” worthy period to seeing racism and xenophobia as systems of oppression.

@NITRAM

As one of the persons who described herself as “incensed,” I want to remind you that you don’t get to decide what incenses me or to judge whether my feelings about a thing are legitimate or over-reacting. If you’d like to hear more about why “incensed” was my reaction, then just ask me and perhaps I will decide to make the effort to explain my reaction to you. Perhaps not. But in either case, you are not the “reactions police” and it is rude and presumptuous of you to measure the righteousness of other people’s responses by how you would or did react. In this respect, you’re the one being judgmental not the commenters.

For the record, stupidity often ticks me off. In this instance, it’s not just Warren’s; it’s also all of Black people and churches that have made Warren rich. It’s the King Center. And yes, it’s #44, too, who spotlighted Warren and made all of his actions news.

The question that came to my mind was why now? It would be more genuine or at least a little more believable if it were say last year for this year’s King day! At least I would believe they were taking it seriously! You are supposed to respond in a few days on 400 years of history that can’t be responded to by email or letter! I think you all should just send Mr. Warren and his staff some history books on African American history and tell them that you all can sit down and have a conversation about what they read next year on Martin Luther King’s birthday.

Dr. Weems,

Thanks for this information. I plan to forward this information to everyone I know. I think it’s a sad day when some reacts in this way. It’s quite obvious that Rick Warren does not take this occassion seriously. This is a very lazy tactic, how embarassing. He does not find it necessary to do his own research and rely on the resources that are at his finger tips. This is like telling one of my professors to share with me all the information from all the books you have been reading from your childhood. lol Maybe he thought that someone would feel honored to assist him with one of the greatest privileges in his ministry.lol I would love to read the response that is sent to him.

@ NiTRAM: relax and stop trying to tell other people how to feel.

As for Rick’s letter, why answer at all?

If I receive a form letter from someone I don’t have a previously established relationship with and they are asking me to do or say something, I feel no obligation to respond.

Don’t know me? Want me to do something? Send me a well-reasoned, written communication. Or, find a public phone number for me and place a call and introduce yourself. Maybe we can go from there.

I imagine all of the people who received these letters are busy people doing meaningful, important things that require their ongoing attention. Why should any one of these scholars/theologians/pastors be distracted from their work because Rick Warren sent a form letter? Sending form letters to people of their statue is disrespectful and dismissive of their time, their contributions, and their ideas.

Still, I don’t know if it’s worth getting upset about. I hate giving my energy away like that. Send the letter to File 13.

one other thing before i close this door–too much of draft coming in.
@nitram- you said “It has nothing to do with whether you have a word from the Lord, its just wisdom.”
—–
i have to differ with you on this–Whos wisdom? the blind leading the blind and they both end up in a ditch.
And it has Everything to do with A Word From The Lord. Anything else is tingling and clanging gongs-noise and mans wisdom will never be able to compete with Gods Wisdom.
that is the problem with this whole thing–men using their narrow minded wisdom and ‘good ideas’ to lead The people of God to enlightenment and growth.
anybody calling themselves a Worker for the Lord better go and ask Him what the people need to hear–or any words will be ineffective. for warren and anyone else to try and lead people from their human ways will only lead them to destruction through ego-driven self serving power.
For one, it is spiritual immaturity.
which is what i hear the Lord telling me your thoughts/words are. we are all growing-hopefully.

Enough of this wasting time-people trying to side track us from the main purpose.
Sister weems, any updates on conversations and decisions between you ad the other clergy that rec’d one of those slave letters?

WTm

@FAL - YES! YES! YES!

In addition, this is so wrong for all of the reasons mentioned. This is textbook example of internalized superiority.

1. Entitlement - “I have right to ask and I expect you to honor my request.”

2. Overinflated ego/narcissistic - “I cannot imagine why you’d turn down my request. I thought you’d feel honored.”

3. Tokenism - “any one of you will do.”

4. Monolith Syndrome - “Well I just assumed that all Black preachers preach the same topics, in the same style and that all Black congregants worship and respond in an identical manner.”

5. Some Are Born To Lead, Others to Serve - “I’ll borrow your sermon but certainly you don’t expect me to follow your leadership?”

6. Street Cred - “I’m down with Obama. Doesn’t that count for something.”

7. Cultural Appropriation - “As a member of the dominant culture I can steal the parts of the culture that I find exotic, soulful and intriguing, sport them as if they are my own, and NEVER have to bear the burden of historical reality that gave birth to the culture.”

Warren’s stunt reinforces the oppressive nature of an institution that views our theology, liturgy, hermeneutics,etc. as though they are an elective college course…something to be added to resume or CV. The dominant culture is then left feeling-good but is not required to internalize our value and contribution to both the profession and the history of this nation.

I could go on but I should probably start my own blog…

@Fal
Don’t worry about starting fires, somewhere I remember the word that says when you walk through them you shall not be consumed. My not sharing your particular view does not qualify me as a non critical thinker. You don’t get to serve notice as some prayer book for my critical thinking skills. And there is nothing in my view that let’s Obama off the hook. I am in essence saying his selection is a bit short-sighted to me. and I believe his disassociation with the Rev. Wright was short-sighted as well for politics sake. I think due to some cultural naivete and the fact that his reality of racism and familial relations does give him a different perspective he has mis-qualified the reactions of those of us born in particular before 1960. I also think he is the man of the hour because in his heart of hearts he has a different take on inclusion. He’ll learn by fire when the same folk start scrutinizing every move to see if he stackss up against the good white boy presidents and when he doesn’t sell out completely to their agenda he will be the Nigger president. Just like every time he does not present as a particular brand of Black messiah he will be a sell out.–But don’t we all learn some things that way. He ain’t perfect and neither are we.
I do believe it is a God thing going on and some things we think we know best about might not be all to the mysterious ways of God with Obama for president. New things happen with new insights. –As for Joe Lowery, having a personal relationship and knowledge of his stands and actions over some remarks that he might not state today gives me a different take. When he took a bomb to his house it was not just for men, however the ridiculous statements a man his age might have made about women. Dr King made sexist statements as well and I would never justify them. Unlike Joe Lowery he did not live to re-cant them and live to take stands that redeem those sexist views. Then again, we all like to think he had some deep better knowledge defying sexism whether he did or didn’t. We do know he knew social justice and that based on the social locales of the days, views are re-assessed for the good of an ever evolving society. It really is a dynamic process, sometimes it happens sooner and sometimes not as soon as it should and sometimes there are set backs.–But with faith and works it does happen and will continue to do so. Am I wrong to thing you believe in radical inclusivity? I am not sure there is one way to get there, for I too believe in it, but my experience informs me that on occasion “the watch pot never boils.” Yours may say something different and still we arrive at radical inclusivity.

For the sister who wondered if I was aware of the protest, I am, thank you. I trust the impact will be productive in keeping the King Center on its toes as it relates to speakers for the annual service.

Wow… I’m amazed at how what I had to say has sparked such criticism to come my way. Not once did I call anyone stupid, resort to name-calling, or question anyone’s spiritual prowess. Yet, because I disagree to some degree I’m being targeted. (Note: Even though I’ve already said that I agree with many points that Dr Weems made…)

** wisdomteachesme:
You talk about passive manipulative controlling and then do it to me, what gives? You said, “it is just you telling us what you think based on your levels of understanding, experiences and wisdom”…as if your “truths” are right b/c your “level” is higher than mine. What I don’t understand is how you can label me while within the confines of about one paragraph you repeat “we hear you!”. I must say that the tone and repeated use of those words is like telling me, quite frankly, shutup-enough already. But you cry foul and call me the passive manipulator?

Just for the record, the only reason why I wrote an addition to my original post was to clarify and respond to someone who responded to me, so I apologize if you felt as though I was pouring it on, so to speak, or if I made it seem that way…for that I apologize.

More than the other responses to my post, I can appreciate you taking the time to explain yourself. But, I must say that my response does not lack spiritual maturity. Please read what I wrote again…. You can’t take things out of context. Yes, I did say “…it has nothing to do with having a Word from the Lord” but you didn’t ask yourself what is the “it” before you responded. I believe before you mount any pulpit, or stand before the people of God you have to consult and get in the face of God. NO DOUBT, but I said what I said to make the point that just because you reference people who have more experience in certain areas, doesn’t mean you don’t have a Word from the Lord. If I am asked to speak at your funeral wisdomteachesme (hypothetical), I would consult your close friends and relatives (people who know you). Does that mean the Lord hasn’t given me a Word? Shoot, if I were a white man asked to speak at a black venue on black issues (which are American issues), with the world watching in a predominately black community on a day for Black America I am going to solicit help from any and everybody I think could help me. Should he have used more tact in reaching out, heck yeah… should he know a little more than what his email reveals, heck yeah… should he buff up his knowledge of race relations, heck yeah… but I don’t believe soliciting help shows a lack of God’s leading… DISCLAIMER, I did not say that God lead him to speak at this event, but it doesn’t mean God isn’t leading him. I can’t make that call, on God and Rev Warren can make that call…

** Fal:
I agree that I can sometimes sound paternalistic and I don’t mean to be anyone’s “daddy” (though I think it should be pointed out that I am a father, ergo the paternal speech)… But again, same as wisdomteachesme, you label me and then do the same thing. You don’t want me to tell you how to feel (although I didn’t, rather I just stated how I felt about people’s reaction by posing a question) but then you tell me what I know! Really Fal… So you know about when I was in HS and the black running back on my team did all the grunt work, while the white running back got credit for all the touchdowns. Or maybe you know that I don’t know about the weight difference in penalties for the use/sell of crack cocaine (black) as opposed to powder cocaine (white). Or I couldn’t possibly see that the Republican Party (and some democrats) tried to use President Elect Obama’s blackness to discredit him while the media and white america pushed Obama as the “Black candidate” (the reason why have come so far) when he at best represents 8% of the black community who’s technically only half black and being raised in Hawaii by his white Grandmother. I couldn’t possibly know about race relations and yes I clearly have a lack of knowledge… whatever.

Clearly, if you actually read what I wrote instead of just responding, you would see that the only reason why I used such well-known and “overt” examples is because everyone knows about them and I only referenced them to show why I disagreed with the use of the word “incensed” by a blogger’s response. I was in no way saying that there wasn’t racism hidden within this particular case, I was saying that it is extreme to be incensed about something of this magnitude.

You said, “All, he has to do if he really understood race and racism in America…” Well guess what, he doesn’t understand and won’t understand it because he is not black. Ergo, one of the reasons he has solicited help. Now, by all means he can learn and should be told to do so. I have no problem with calling him out on that, he should be called out on that because he has access to the information and people…

** Leslie D. Callahan:
You are absolutely right, I am not the “reactions police” and I don’t get to decide for you… but that doesn’t mean that I can’t say that it was an overreaction. What I don’t understand is, if you are allowed to be “incensed” about the situation and express that, why don’t I get to have a reaction about what you said? It doesn’t make sense to me… You attack me for saying how I feel but you want to be free to say what you feel. I didn’t tell you how to feel… What I was trying to do (obviously it was a failed attempt) was to pose a question to reference those feelings and bring them into focus by comparing situations. I’m sorry, but if someone shoots and kills my mother, I am going to be incensed, but if someone shoots and kills an old guy in Australia I’m going to be upset and feel that it is wrong, but I am not going to be incensed… If that is how you feel, then you go with that, I just don’t agree with that feeling. I am more than happy to hear why you feel the way you feel.

I haven’t sentenced you to anything, nor did I label you as an “overly emotional person,” an evil person” or the like… so I didn’t judge you. I just said what I felt just as you said how you felt… You gave me a “for the record” and used the word ticked off… which I think (even though I’m not the reaction police) is a reasonable reaction even though I don’t feel that way. Incensed is a strong word, like when you mom says don’t say you hate someone, say you dislike. If you are “inflamed with wrath” or “infuriated” by these turn of events then say incensed, but you can’t tell me not to chide in if you can…

** Deborah:
Please don’t tell me to relax… take your own advice. I have not refuted or said anything contrary to anything you wrote in your response, so I don’t even know why you referenced me at all. I agree that Form Letters are impersonal, lazy, and so on. I agree that it shows poor judgment on certain levels and I think that the recipients of those letters have the due right to either ignore the letter or respond to the letter. You reference me and then proceed to say the exact same thing I said just in different words - “Still, I don’t know if it’s worth getting upset about.” Exactly my point… its not worth getting incensed about… moving on…

@ Sojourner 4 Truth,

Well said!!!

@ Tre,

My point was not to paint you as an uncritical person. My point was simply to say that Barack Obama’s choice of Rick Warren for the Inauguration says “something” more about the president, not only is a political strategy to gain the support of evangelicals (in particular white evangelicals). I am still trying to etch out what that “something” is and how it relates to his presidential tenure.

I am not down playing the struggles of male civil rights heroes. But I do find it interesting that we allow some black men to be in perfect (i.e. Colin Powell, Jesse Jackson, Bill Cosby, Martin Luther King, Joe Lowery, R Kelly), but pull though the fire black women like Condolezza Rice.

@ Nitram E Martin

Your Paternalistic Demeaning Comments,

“seems to me Rick Warren isn’t the only person showing ignorance.”

“Fo real people, let’s be critical to the extent that things, intentions, and agendas need to be exposed but let’s not go too far. (Judge not lest you be judged)”

“I think we are putting more on this than needs to be.”

“I’m just saying that a lot of these comments are going way past the response due this situation.”

“Yet you are ready to crucify a man for calling a sin a sin. Something is wrong here…”

“Georgia Angels: The question should be, why not choose him? Not why would, but why not. (Don’t answer saying that someone else is qualified… answer saying why he is disqualified)”

And the only retort you can give is that your detractors are doing the same thing to you. Simple. Very Simple.

My two charges against you were: “You are paternalistic in you comment and that you lack an understanding of race.” Each statement was based upon your own words. If you only list overt racist acts to show how “we women” are overly reacting to Warren’s simple letter of help then of course my response is to state how racism is insidious that it can lurk in unseen ways, “less overt ways” such as the number of people of color insured to a white pastor, “Good Christian Bruh Rick Warren,” asking black minister to help him write a speech on racial justice.

Secondly, being a father does not mean you have to demean people with your speech. Your words speak to us as if we are children who lack any common sense and are in need of your “chiding” and “guidance” to understand “de big man world” of sending letters.

Let me put it clear to you so that there is no misunderstanding here, We don’t need you to help us to see the big picture, brother.

My first response would be how would Jesus respond…Jesus dealt with all types, but what disturbed people about Jesus the most, I think, is that He was always able to diagnose the condition of people’s hearts. What is the condition of Warren’s heart in writing this letter? Did he mean to patronize? Did he mean to offend? My favorite quote from “Boyz in the Hood” comes to mind…

“Either they don’t know, don’t show, or don’t care about what’s going on in the hood.”

Maybe this quote applies in this situation. Maybe he doesn’t know, maybe he doesn’t show or doesn’t care…I think it’s something to pray about…How does the Lord want me to respond? At least that is what I would do…but I’m not a minister soo…

Aside: Wow, comments on this blog can get sooo long

@ NiTRAM [E. Martin]
First, I know you recognize the difference between the biological/social role that if “father”, and the social control mechanism that is “paternalism.” It’s the paternalism that garnered such a strong reaction from many of us, I believe.
If I may be so bold, I’d like to make some general comments about what this blog means for the women (mostly black, some non-black) and men who come here.
As black women we are constantly told that we’re overreacting and that we need to put things in perspective. We recognize such evaluations as attempts to silence us, attempts to tell us to conform to white or male, or white male worldviews.
On this blog, our reactions aren’t overreactions. Here, we demonstrate that we recognize connectedness on two levels. The first level is the connection between microaggressions and overt actions of hostility. We recognize that we cannot wait until Holocaust; we must become incensed at the first sign of intolerance and domination. Warren’s letter isn’t on the same level as the murder of Oscar Grant, but the entitlement that officer felt is the same entitlement Warren (or whoever is responsible for that letter) feels.
The second level is the connection between what one suffers and our own suffering. We recognize that the murder of an old guy in Australia has implications for the safety of your mother here in the US. We recognize Warren’s letter as part of a pattern of white domination that impacts each one of us in our own situations. No doubt many of the people who replied to this blog had in mind an instance where something similar happened to them.

I am not sure I would want to beat Rick Warren down because he doesn’t want to offend African Americans with his speech. It is no secret that the whites don’t understand our culture and why we feel the way we do. they have all been in a bubble. I found out even more about this when I started doing workshops for Chaplains in training on black religion and the questions and feedback I get from them spoke volumes. (99% white audience). If he needs help and the black preachers want to see change then they need to meet with him and give him a verbal education. Yes he is sending all of the black preachers letters because he doesn’t know who he can be comfortable with to ask his questions. If he wants to sell his book, then he is doing no more than what all of the preachers are doing, trying to sell their books. If Warren doesn’t get it, then meet with him and give it to him. this is why Barack Obama is reaching out to him. CHANGE!! (What is the big deal!!)

@ Socgrad,

Well said sis. Thank you.

@ NiTRAM: “I have not refuted or said anything contrary to anything you wrote in your response, so I don’t even know why you referenced me at all.”

I referenced you because I am reading and considering all of the comments posted here. That. is. how. blogs. work.

I have tried over the years to explain to whites that you have to do your homework first and then, when you have done the very best you can to understand white supremacy, then see if there is someone who might do you the honor of reading what you’ve written and help you to see your blind spots. If Rick Warren had only sent the letter to Renita, it still wouldn’t have been ok.

Also, there is nothing in his letter that indicates that Warren actually read and thought about Renita’s sermon, “How Will Our Preaching Be Remembered”. I’d add to the insult of the mass emal, the question of whether Warren lied. Did he read it? If yes, where are his thoughtful comments?

I’m glad there will be a demonstration on Monday at Ebenezer Baptist. If I were in Atlanta, I’d go.

Wow, I was really taken aback by all the hatred in some of these posts and comments. Whatever reason you want to give, I don’t think hate is productive. Hate separates. Other people doing it is not a free pass that makes it perfectly fine for you to do it as well. Or at least that is one of the lessons I thought I learned from Jesus, but perhaps I was not understanding it correctly, judge not lest ye be judged, etc. Judging the whites as every one of them guilty until proven innocent is not going to solve any problems or help anyone. There are many ways to suffer in this world and no one group has a monopoly on it.

I am going to write about this on my Washington Post blog. I am so irritated and, I guess, insulted by this. I admit, I am not so sophisticated when it comes to politics, but this wreaks of something … I don’t know what. Why would he do this? Someone said it was classic “divide and conquer” strategy. Really? Geez, I wish I understood. I wonder how many of the African American clergy who got the letter actually responded? You know, honored and all that THE Rick Warren would seek their counsel. There is so much cow-towing and struggling, by black folks in general and black clergy in particular, to get close to “the power,” meaning, the president. If helping Warren helps them, then so be it. OOOOHHH! I could go on, but I won’t. Will write, though, on my WP blog. Goodness!

Fal,
We are really agreeing in many ways. I was not trying to be exhaustive in my response about Obama’s ideologies or theology. There was also no attempt to deny the human frailty of black male leaders, entertainers, etc. There was no undue scourge upon the shoulders of women and black women in particular, that ain’t my routine. Read again. I stand by my take and am informed by the examinations of others with many Amens. –Maybe we all would take Dr. Weems advice to put Warren on blast in the media blogs. This way Obama and the King Center hears us loudly and clearly. Glad you’re engaged on this blog. Finally, “a” not the only point of concern for me is that voices like Rick Warren’s seem to resonate uncritcally Fal by the masses and disproportionately by the black masses who are proponents of an instant gratification cosmological perspective of God. The Rick Warren’s become the religious owners of religious plantations with black religious overseers who for the sake of their share of the profits keep the laborers from following the North Star or better yet the one in the East that proclaimed the Gospel of Jesus Christ and His message of hope through liberation work. –A more inclusive world need not forget everybody still isn’t free. It is my hope that as Otis Moss, III said in his Emancipation Day sermon for the NAACP that we are experiencing a “promised moment” we have not arrived at the “promised land.” We do have to be in the mix critically as you say and we must be careful still to do the critical work. I don’t want the Rick Warren’s to slickly market that freedom is complete via the very ways Sojourner 4 Truth espoused and we buy into it and miss what God is really doing.

Sojourner 4 Truth,
Break it on Down if you want to!!!!!!!!! Yes!

Peace,
TRe

After reading Dr. Smith’s comment, I went to look at her blog on Washingtonpost.com. I found Jim Forbes’s blog citing the fact that Rick Warren wrote to him for advice.

I wonder just how many people got this form letter/email. He “felt led” to write indeed!

I have read and re-read his email sixty times and I still DON’T GET IT!
What is he saying again?
Is he seeking your endorsement? Your blessing?
I don’t get it.
He cannot possibly be seeking your words because those you have provided for whosoever in books upon books.
An exorcism? A cloaking?
Even giants can be afraid you know.

@Fal,
When I said,“If you and the other pastors give Warren some talking points, a lil’ education on the topic, help him with his political correctness, then maybe he’ll remember you all and put in a good word with his “friend” President Obama.”

Of course I was being facetious.